Why US kids will not come back from Brasil

[NoansDad]

This morning I spoke with an attorney at the OAG in Brasilia that I tracked down 3 weeks ago and have spoken to several times about my case. I asked him quite frankly, "How much does the judge want? How much money does he want" and he got mad at me and said he was tired of me complaining  that all the judges in Brasil are corrupt and he then, in his moment of anger, let out what many have already summized on this website.
"I am a state attorney and I am working for you for free, Brasil gives free help to people in your situation from all countries even from countries like America. Do you know what America does for people in your situation they give them a list with three names of attorneys who will work pro bono. But once they start they then say you now have to pay us. That is what America does. That is maybe why this judge will never let your son go back to America. But we are still working for you for free"
I pressed him on the fact that even though I have a court order for my wife to show me my son every day she has not followed it at all, and who is ever going to enforce that. His immediate reply was that "When David Goldman took his son home there was an order for his Grandmother to have visits and even when she went there the court would not allow her to visit so this is not just Brasil doing this."

When I asked him how Cam Connor got his kids back to Australia in under 5 months he shut up and said nothing.

And that sums it up. Even the State attorneys still see this as USA versus Brasil. This is still payback for Sean Goldman actually getting to come home to his Dad. The judges and attorneys still see it that way. This is still about the weak Brasil court being made to do something by America and, god forbid, actually have to follow the law. They are still so small minded that that is what this is to all of them. The judges in the Supreme Court in Brasil will never actually make a decision on the illegality of Sean coming home because if they make a decision saying that Sean needs to come back it will never be enforced and they will look more weak and powerless. That is why in my case even though the decision for my wife to show me my son on Skype was made by the appellate court after the first judge denied me..... NO ONE and I mean NO ONE will go back to the appellate court judge and tell him his order is not being followed. My paid attorney wouldn't do it , the BCA and and OAG will not do it now, they keep on going back to the first judge because no one wants to expose what is going on... that the Brasil courts are weak and powerless to actually have anything they rule be enforced.

Marty Pate, mate you should be stoked that you have Nicole home because after talking with this attorney I honestly don't even see any hope of having the court rule or enforce for Noan to be able to come and visit me for even 2 months a year.

[Diane]

I felt so hopeful that Sean Goldman would sit a precedent for other children in Brazil and other places, to be returned.

It has been shown over and over that our own government has the capacity to affect these returns if they choose to do so.   It is blatantly unfair that a few are helped but that the majority can't even get a return call from the state dept. and even when they do it is couched in excuses and platitudes.

[StrngConviction]

I pray you have a Merry Christmas and get to talk with her .

[SageDad]

Latin American courts are, like pretty much all institutions in the region, mostly corrupt, nationalistic, petty and resentful of the United States.

They see American parents and don't want to do anything to help them because the American government has the power to help them itself if it really wanted to.

I see government agencies and courts in Mexico doing all sorts of work in my case... but they are all, literally, working very hard to avoid actually doing anything.  They do more work and research to not do real work than they would need to do if they just did their job in the first place. It's retarded and would almost be funny if it didn't involve abducted children.  Every single motion, procedure, request etc, that I make is met by officials who try their very best to avoid admitting it, then try their best to have it dismissed, with the flimsiest of reasons, and then do everything they can to avoid working on it (much less resolving it,) including all sorts of interesting games and tricks, for as long as possible hoping that, if they delay long enough the situation will resolve on its own... and since the "situation" is that a Mexican parent (usually a mother) gets to keep their abducted child in Mexico (or Brazil, or any other Hague country for that matter) for at least as long as they don't resolve the case, they have no motivation or desire to see the case resolved.  Just the opposite, they are perfectly comfortable with maintaining the status quo since its the resolution they'd like to see anyway.. even, and especially, if the law doesn't support the child staying, and will work hard to make no decision if the only decision the law supports is the one they don't like.

These agencies/institutions see Americans and are:

1.) Not inclined to help and don't want to be seen as helping a foreigner and being a traitor.
2.) Enjoy "teaching" Americans something or other because we need some sort of lesson
3.) Feel like if they are going to do a "favor" for rich Americans they should be getting more out of it and are holding out on working on the matter until they actually do get something out of it.  What might they get out of it if they drag their feet and wait for the US Government to actually get involved?  Mostly money. Lots of money. The US gives trillions of dollars in Foreign Aid and assistance every year for the things "we" actually care about.

[NoansDad]

Yes, the government lawyer's voice this morning had resentment all over it. He resented having to help me, he resented the fact Sean had made it home, he resented the fact that this situation showed his country to be third world and I was able to point that out to him. If his government was third world then he was third world.  Not my fault, just  that I am prepared to call a spade a spade.

[SageDad]

Yes, the government lawyer's voice this morning had resentment all over it. He resented having to help me, he resented the fact Sean had made it home, he resented the fact that this situation showed his country to be third world and I was able to point that out to him. If his government was third world then he was third world.  Not my fault, just  that I am prepared to call a spade a spade.

In fairness though, the US should be providing legal representation to parents whose children are abducted TO the US.

I think the main reason they don't is because, if they give money to foreign parents, parents like us would be able to point out the hypocrisy of them not giving us a penny.  Certainly though, they do get much more involved with incoming cases than they do with outgoing cases.

[SageDad]

From what I can tell, it's not even that Mexico treats abduction cases like regular cases and exposes them to its usual incompetence and inefficiency.

What I see is that they handle Hague cases even worse than they do regular custody cases.  Not only are Hague cases not faster, but they are even slower and have more problems along the way.

No one really knows what they're doing or what they're supposed to be doing and vague directives like "letting the child's voice be heard" and "seeking the best interest of the child" are invoked to justify basically anything and everything.. even things that are manifestly NOT in the best interest of the child are routinely justified as being needed for the best interest of the child.

And, as stated earlier, there's no motivation whatsoever to do anything about the problem -- it's not really a problem, after all, if the symptom of the problem is that Mexican/Brazilian parents get to keep their kids in Mexico/Brazil.

[StrngConviction]

Its all about economics. The longer they stay in courts the longer people are employed , if the child actually gets to stay they raise their young workforce numbers. politics and economics . its not hard to see that but very hard to beat. America has the largest young workforce foreseen and the best economy . Why would they spend the money in a venture that is better spent in other countries.

[BringJusticeHome]

I do not think the blame should be put onto Brazil or any other country at that. The blame should 100% be shouldered by the U.S GOVERNMENT. You can't fault someone else for breaking a rule, law, treaty if the other party is not enforcing it. I see soo much anger towards these other countries when the anger should be solely placed on our very own country. America does not care about it's citizens. Government officials only care about themselves and their families. These other countries are not honoring their end of the deal because they are not being forced too, and there is no repercussions for them failing to do so. It's like a man or women who continues to cheat on their partner. If you continue to let the person cheat and every time they do it you forgive them and there are no repercussions for their actions, then why should they stop. It's the same with brazil, mexico and all these other non-compliant hague countries. They know just as much as we do that the U.S will not force and punish countries for not standing by the hague in which they voluntarily signed. It has been proving that when the U.S government decides to step in results happen. Look at David's case when the sanctions where put on the Brazil government, they quickly returned Sean. Most recently the governor's grandson who was returned quicker then I can receive a call back from Daisy at the DOS. The problem with these abductions starts and ends with the U.S government. Case and point, Susan Jacobs job is not solely parental child abductions its Adoptions and Abductions. When you call and the recordings go threw the options of where you want to go, international child abductions does not have it's own number, Abductions and Adoptions are paired together. This just shows you how much the U.S does not place importance on international child abductions. If we want our children back in America and want to help future American childs to be returned and prevented from being abducted it starts and ends with our government. Until there are changes with how the U.S deals with our cases there will be no change in outcome with these other non-compliant countries.

[L.E.R.P.]

   

I do not think the blame should be put onto Brazil or any other country at that. The blame should 100% be shouldered by the U.S GOVERNMENT. You can't fault someone else for breaking a rule, law, treaty if the other party is not enforcing it.

I see soo much anger towards these other countries when the anger should be solely placed on our very own country. America does not care about its citizens. Government officials only care about themselves and their families. These other countries are not honoring their end of the deal because they are not being forced too, and there is a no repercussions for them failing to do so.

It's like a man or women who continues to cheat on their partner. If you continue to let the person cheat and every time they do it you forgive them and there are no repercussions for their actions, then why should they stop. It's the same with brazil, mexico and all these other non-compliant hague countries. They know just as much as we do that the U.S will not force and punish countries for not standing by the hague in which they voluntarily signed.

It has been proving that when the U.S government decides to step in results happen. Look at David's case when the sanctions were put on the Brazil government, they quickly returned Sean. Most recently the governor's grandson who was returned quicker then I can receive a call back from Daisy at the DOS.

The problem with these abductions starts and ends with the U.S government. Case and point, Susan Jacobs job is not solely parental child abductions its Adoptions and Abductions. When you call and the recordings go through the options of where you want to go, international child abductions does not have its own number, Abductions and Adoptions are paired together. This just shows you how much the U.S does not place importance on international child abductions. If we want our children back in America and want to help future American Childs to be returned and prevented from being abducted it starts and ends with our government.

Until there are changes with how the U.S deals with our cases there will be no change in outcome with these other non-compliant countries.

 :yeahthat

[NoansDad]

You can't fault someone else for breaking a rule, law, treaty if the other party is not enforcing it.


Excuse my anger but ..... what a load of s**t. Are you serious. ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!!  It seems that a third world mentality is alive and well in America. Do you even understand what this is saying. I went and raped a girl last week... no one arrested me so I guess I can go and do it again. It must be okay to do. Doesn't matter what I should be thinking or what personal moral standards I should uphold.. I should just do anything I want if no one stops me!!!!!! My friend stole money from a store, he didn't get caught so I guess I should do it to.  Do you know how they think in 3rd world countries like Brasil. Just like this. Just like this everyday for everything. People are vilified if they had the opportunity to steal/cheat/lie and THEY DON'T.  They take pride in cheating!!!!!!! They take pride in stealing!!!! The take pride in committing fraud!!!!  The mind set is, if you can get away with doing something illegal, you should do it. Life is to go and get as much as you can and screw what that means to someone else. Remember the riots in LA when they were looting stores... were you cheering and going. 'Hey no one is getting arrested so everyone should be doing it.'  I know what I thought of those people. Scum... animals... less than human. But if you want to cheer them on as doing the right thing because ... No one was stopping them.. You need to take a serious look at yourself.

There is no such thing as personal pride/ethics/honor of being something more than just an animal in much of the world and what is worse people who aren't animals just shrugging their shoulders and going 'Nothing I need to do about it. It isn't me".....   That is the first step to lowering yourself to that level.

I pride myself that I don't care how many people I see walking past someone needing help on the street, I stop and help.. or past someone creating a disturbance that is annoying others.. I will step in and clock them with a good right..... And it doesn't matter how many others have just walked past. IN fact the more that have done nothing the better I feel. I never, ever, ever want to feel that I should be doing nothing, simply because no one else is as well...EVER....  and I sure as hell DON'T WANT MY SON TO GROW UP THINKING LIKE THAT.  That is what makes the third world .. THE THIRD WORLD!!!

[BringJusticeHome]

I never said it was ok for any of that All I simply said was if America is not enforcing treaties don't fault another country for taking advantage of America. Fault America for not backing their treaties, that don't benefit them.

"They take pride in cheating!!!!!!! They take pride in stealing!!!! The take pride in committing fraud!!!!  The mind set is, if you can get away with doing something illegal, you should do it. Life is to go and get as much as you can and screw what that means to someone else." <- You have just described your very own country AMERICA. You have a really rude awaken when you come to this understanding. I am not a foreigner saying this I am 100% born and raised in America. I am a United States Marine Corps veteran who has proudly served my country. You know when I discovered what this country is all about, when I served for my country. When I saw first hand what this country is all about.

This country is no more better then Brazil or any other country. You as a fellow Left Behind Parent should know this first hand. What has America done for you in your case ? How have they helped? What's the DOS/OCI doing for any of us. It makes me sick to hear people praise America so much for all the good and great things this country does and how this country does no wrong. I'm not anti America or anything like that but I speak the facts. I speak what I know and what I saw in my time in the service. I speak for for the injustices that I see go on in America everyday.

I've traveled the world. I have been to 4 different countries, and spoke with the locals. I have listened to their thoughts about America, do I believe everything? No, I don't but I take in somethings. So when a country like Brazil say's they don't want to help America, you have to think why they would think this in the first place.

"Do you know what America does for people in your situation they give them a list with three names of attorneys who will work pro bono. But once they start they then say you now have to pay us. That is what America does. That is maybe why this judge will never let your son go back to America. But we are still working for you for free"

^^^^ Is any of this statement false??? A list of three attorneys who work pro bono, hahah hell that's even more then they give us as LBP's in America. As hard as it my be to digest unfortunately Americans are not popular people, in the eyes of locals in most countries. In cases like ours that are in foreign countries, unfortunately people will be biased, racist or anti American. Whatever you want to call it, but how is that any different then in America.

My son was abducted to Brazil so by no means am I biased towards you in anyway. I am in the same situation as you are. I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful to you. All I am saying is this country AMERICA is number one to BLAME.

I see people bad mouth all these other countries, when they should be focusing their attention on America. Brazil has exit control. Brazil cares about their children. It is hard as hell to leave Brazil with a child under 18. In America I can grab any child take them on a flight and leave. What is America doing to prevent this? Brazil has shown with their exit controls and various requirements to leave their country with a minor child, that they prioritize their children. When has America prioritize our children??

Without bringseanhome.org most of us would be clueless. This site has gone above and beyond to help us. They have done 1000% more then our very own government has done for us. So excuse me for not praising our country , but a spade is a spade. I just call it like it is.

[StrngConviction]

I agree wth both of you . Why would the abducting country send the children back if not forced too , that would be stupid on their part. Morally corupt? Of course it is but it greases the world economy and young work force where the economically troubled countries are.
 So if America turns their heads , its to the countries advantage to keep it in the court for as long as possible for employment/economic progress and than to keep the child for the younger work force they need but dont have because would be parents that live there already cant afford to raise. Than as time progresses they will get further assistance through our state department for programs that asssist them in raising our children. Its all a money game .... pure economics and Sickening....

[BringJusticeHome]

Its all a money game .... pure economics and Sickening....

 :yeahthat


Unfortunately this is all everything is about in the WORLD.... MONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There's no way around it, that is what this world has come to.. I'm not giving these countries a free pass for keeping our children. When it comes down to it, I never expect another country to help me with anything. I expect my OWN country to help me. Our very own country AMERICA is not even helping us. I can't really be mad at Brazil, they are protecting and helping their own. When will America start helping and protecting their own.