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Offline JuliRosi

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Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« on: June 05, 2011, 05:04:12 AM »
I think they forgot that Sean didn't need the Brazilian passport to return to the USA in 2009. He is American! :hihi

http://www.istoe.com.br/reportagens/140454_O+POSTAL+DE+SEAN+PARA+AVO

ISTOÉ Gente

|  N° Edição:  2169 |  04.Jun.11 - 09:00 |  Atualizado em 05.Jun.11 - 05:27

O postal de Sean para avó

O advogado DA família brasileira do menino Sean Goldman prevê para o segundo semestre o novo julgamento no STJ

Gisele Vitória com Bela Megale

O advogado DA família brasileira do menino Sean Goldman (na foto com o pai, David Goldman), Sérgio Tostes, prevê para o segundo semestre o novo julgamento no STJ, que decidirá se houve ilegalidade na sua repatriação para OS EUA, em 2009. Em dezembro daquele ano, Sean, que tem dupla cidadania, foi entregue ao governo Americano sem passaporte. “Isto é tão for a do normal que no Brasil só há uma situação parecida: a entrega DA Olga Benario aos nazistas”, compara Tostes. À coluna, a ministra DA Secretaria de Direitos Humanos, Maria do Rosário, diz que tenta promover o encontro DA avó com o neto.

A sra. Tem contato com a avó se Sean, Silvana Bianchi?

Sim, estamos movendo ações com o Ministério de Relações Exteriores para que a avó possa encontrá-lo. Chegou às minhas mãos um cartão do Sean para sua avó e o levei até ela há duas semanas. Foi entregue por Sean e seu pai numa visita de diplomatas brasileiros.

No que avançou o caso?

Essa visita consular onde pegamos o cartão. É pouco, mas tentamos sensibilizar o pai. Não queremos enfrentamento. Para nós, a guarda está decidida. É o pai quem a detém.

A posição do governo é apoiar a avó para visitar a criança, mas não na luta pela guarda?

É legítimo que ela lute. Quando ele crescer, ela poderá dizer que nunca desistiu. Mas há uma decisão judicial e a reconhecemos, porém não foi dito que a avó nunca mais o verá. O que o governo propõe é um acordo entre as famílias. Não tenho acompanhado a dimensão judicial.

Pela Convenção de Haia, não se pode fazer busca e apreensão de uma criança que more há mais de um ano num país. Sean viveu no Brasil por quase cinco anos. Por que a Secretaria apoiou seu retorno aos EUA?

Não gostaria de responder questões sobre um período que não estava à frente DA secretaria.

Google Translation
 
IstoE Gente
 
Issue N °: 2169 | 04.Jun.11 - 09:00 | Updated 05.Jun.11 - 05:27

Postcard from Sean to grandmother
 
The Brazilian family's lawyer Sean Goldman forecasts for the second half of the retrial in the STJ

 
Gisele Win with Bela Megale
 
The Brazilian's family lawyer Sean Goldman (pictured with her father, David Goldman), Sergio Tostes, forecasts for the second half of the retrial in the Supreme Court, which decides whether there was illegality in their repatriation to the U.S. In 2009. In December of that year, Sean, who has dual citizenship, was delivered to the U.S. Government without a passport. "This is so unusual that in Brazil there is only a similar situation: the delivery of Olga Benario the Nazis," compares Tostes. In the column, the minister of the Secretariat of Human Rights, Maria do Rosario, says it tries to promote the meeting of the grandmother with her grandson.

Mrs.. Is in contact with Sean grandmother, Silvana Bianchi?

Yes, stocks are moving with the Foreign Ministry that the grandmother can find it. It reached me a card for your grandmother and Sean brought to her two weeks ago. It was delivered by Sean and his father on a visit to Brazilian diplomats.

As the case progressed?

This consular visit where we got the card. It's little, but we try to sensitize the father. We do not want confrontation. For us, custody is decided. He is the father who holds them.

The government's position is to support the grandmother to visit the child, but not in the fight for custody?

 
They are right to fight it. When he grows up, she can say we never gave up. But there is a court ruling and recognize, but was not told that the grandmother never see him again. What the government is proposing is an agreement between the families. I have followed the judicial dimension.

 
The Hague Convention, you can not do search and seizure of a child who lives more than a year in a country. Sean lived in Brazil for nearly five years. Why the Secretariat supported his return to the U.S.?

I would not answer questions about a period that was not in front of the secretariat
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 05:27:25 AM by JuliRosi »

Offline sara

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2011, 09:35:51 AM »
 Toastes compairing the reuniting of a father and ABDUCTED son after five and a half years to a Nazi criminal case truly shows how evil he is!

And Minister Rosario, Just stop your BS!! You know the deal. You have the opportunity to say and do the right things in this case and for the remaining abducted children illegally held in Brazil.

 This quote from the slimy reporter and then Rosario's answer shows Brazil still does not want to honor their Treaty obligations.

"The Hague Convention, you can not do search and seizure of a child who lives more than a year in a country. Sean lived in Brazil for nearly five years. Why the Secretariat supported his return to the U.S.?"

"I would not answer questions about a period that was not in front of the secretariat" 
It would have been very simple for Rosario to answer truthfully.
 


Offline todez

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2011, 09:42:51 AM »
More lies.  We really have to go after them in the press somehow to show all of their lies. 
I doubt that it's true, but since I don't know the Hague Convention very well, does it actually state the "one year" rule that the ignorant (and possibly corrupt) Minister is citing?
As far as Toasty goes, anything for attention and money.  He doesn't like not being noticed.  Reminds you of someone else in this story?  I still say something needs to be presented to the American Bar Association over his comments.  Maybe Captain Chris (Smith) can do something about that!

Offline lovellboys

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2011, 11:26:15 AM »
More lies.  We really have to go after them in the press somehow to show all of their lies. 
I doubt that it's true, but since I don't know the Hague Convention very well, does it actually state the "one year" rule that the ignorant (and possibly corrupt) Minister is citing?
As far as Toasty goes, anything for attention and money.  He doesn't like not being noticed.  Reminds you of someone else in this story?  I still say something needs to be presented to the American Bar Association over his comments.  Maybe Captain Chris (Smith) can do something about that!

No it does not state 'one year'.  If that were the case, no abducted child would have a shot at being returned after that time, and there would be no pending Hague cases, since we all know Brazil and may other countries do not return children within the six week time frame.

This is yet another example of how ignorant they are of the treaty and how little they seem to understand how it's supposed to work.

Offline Dan_Plainview

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2011, 12:50:41 PM »
More lies.  We really have to go after them in the press somehow to show all of their lies. 
I doubt that it's true, but since I don't know the Hague Convention very well, does it actually state the "one year" rule that the ignorant (and possibly corrupt) Minister is citing?
As far as Toasty goes, anything for attention and money.  He doesn't like not being noticed.  Reminds you of someone else in this story?  I still say something needs to be presented to the American Bar Association over his comments.  Maybe Captain Chris (Smith) can do something about that!

They are intentionally misrepresenting Article 12.

http://www.hcch.net/upload/conventions/txt28en.pdf

"Where a child has been wrongfully removed or retained in terms of Article 3 and, at the date of the commencement of the proceedings before the judicial or administrative authority of the Contracting State where the child is, a period of less than one year has elapsed from the date of the wrongful removal or retention, the authority concerned shall order the return of the child forthwith.
The judicial or administrative authority, even where the proceedings have been commenced after the expiration of the period of one year referred to in the preceding paragraph, shall also order the return of the child, unless it is demonstrated that the child is now settled in its new environment.
Where the judicial or administrative authority in the requested State has reason to believe that the child has been taken to another State, it may stay the proceedings or dismiss the application for the return of the child."
Dan
 
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Offline StrngConviction

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2011, 02:21:08 PM »
The one year thing is for search and seizure.  If the LBP has not taken any action. ( searched or shown proof of searching ) within one year. (EXCERSIZED or tried to enjoy their custody rights by searching  )
Behind this smile is something only we LBP understand.
                May God be with ALL our children.

Offline a.marcos

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2011, 03:40:09 PM »
Tostes said “the Supreme Court, which decides whether there was illegality in their repatriation to the U.S. In 2009. In December of that year, Sean, who has dual citizenship, was delivered to the U.S. Government without a passport.”.

I'm from Brazil,and what he said about Sean needs his brazilian passaport to return to U.S.A,where he was born,is true,by law every brazilian citizen is obligated to leave the country using the Brazilian passport,no matter which country he is going to.....but the problem is that Sean left Brazil without his two passaports,they're both still in Brazil.

Offline liesl78

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2011, 04:39:08 PM »
The American consulate gave Sean a passport so he could travel. As an American citizen, he would not need a Brazilian passport to travel to the US.

My mother is a Brazilian and Portuguese citizen, and travels with her Portuguese passport when she comes to visit me.
Liesl78
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Offline a.marcos

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2011, 08:43:18 PM »
The American consulate gave Sean a passport so he could travel. As an American citizen, he would not need a Brazilian passport to travel to the US.

My mother is a Brazilian and Portuguese citizen, and travels with her Portuguese passport when she comes to visit me.
If you are Brazilian, you need your passport to enter or leave the country...look...
http://www.sairdobrasil.com/2008/01/14/duvidas-frequentes-para-quem-vive-ou-quer-viver-no-exterior/

in case of dual nationality

Dupla Nacionalidade: possibilidades segundo a Lei brasileira
Não há qualquer restrição quanto à múltipla nacionalidade de brasileiros que possuam nacionalidade originária estrangeira, em virtude de nascimento (jus soli) ou de ascendência (jus sanguinis). Isto significa que todo indivíduo que, no momento de seu nascimento, já detinha direito a cidadania diferente da brasileira, reconhecida por Estado estrangeiro, poderá mantê-la sem conflito com a legislação brasileira. Por conseguinte, a dupla nacionalidade não se aplica ao cidadão brasileiro que adquire nacionalidade estrangeira, ao longo da vida, por casamento ou imigração, entre outros motivos, com exceção feita aos casos onde houver, pelo Estado estrangeiro, imposição de naturalização, como condição para permanência em país estrangeiro ou para o exercício de direitos civis.

Os cidadãos com dupla nacionalidade não devem jamais esquecer que mantêm direitos e deveres em relação aos países que lhe concedem nacionalidade (serviço militar, situação eleitoral, fiscal, etc). Ademais, a dupla nacionalidade pode implicar limitações na reivindicação de certos direitos, como nos casos de pedido de assistência consular dentro de um país onde também é considerado como nacional.

A título de exemplo: um indivíduo com dupla cidadania, brasileira e colombiana, sempre que se encontrar dentro do território colombiano será tratado, pelas autoridades locais, exclusivamente como colombiano, e nunca como estrangeiro, ainda que apresente documentos brasileiros e alegue essa condição. Estas restrições podem ocorrer, por exemplo, em casos de separação, divórcio, litígio em relação ao direito sobre guarda de filhos, heranças e questões de pagamento de impostos, entre outros.

Em resumo

1-) A dupla nacionalidade é admitida, pela lei brasileira (nacionalidade originária), por descendência (se seus pais possuíam a nacionalidade de outro país) ou por local de nascimento (se você nasceu no território de outro país, fora do Brasil, que lhe concede o direito à nacionalidade),e não por casamento com estrangeiro.

2-) A dupla nacionalidade implica deveres e direitos em relação aos respectivos países de nacionalidade.

3-) A dupla nacionalidade pode implicar limitações ao alcance da assistência consular a ser  (por exemplo, se você é colombiano e brasileiro, e estiver em território colombiano, a Justiça da Colômbia o tratará exclusivamente como cidadão colombiano).

4-) Lembre-se, sempre, que você estará submetido às leis do país que se encontrar (em residência, em viagem de trabalho, visitando etc).

5-) Se você é cidadão Brasileiro, nunca se esqueça que deverá sem entrar e sair do território Brasileiro apresentando  seu passaporte Brasileiro (e não como estrangeiro).

Dual Citizenship: possibilities according to Brazilian Law
There is no restriction on multiple citizenship of Brazilians who have foreign nationality by birth, by virtue of birth (jus soli) or descent (jus sanguinis). This means that any person who at the time of his birth, already had the right to citizenship than that of Brazil, recognized by a foreign state, may maintain it without conflict with the Brazilian legislation. Therefore, dual citizenship does not apply to Brazilian citizens who acquired foreign citizenship, lifelong learning, by marriage or immigration, among other reasons, with exception for cases where there is, by a foreign State, the imposition of naturalization, as a condition for residence in a foreign country or in the exercise of civil rights.

Citizens with dual nationality should never forget that hold rights and duties in respect of countries that grant him citizenship (military service, state election supervisor, etc.). In addition, dual nationality may lead to limitations in the claims of certain rights, such as in cases of requests for consular assistance in a country where it is also regarded as national.

For example: an individual with dual citizenship, Brazil and Colombia, where is inside Colombian territory will be handled by local authorities, solely as Colombian, and never as a foreigner, even if they present documents and Brazilians allege that condition. These restrictions may occur, for example in cases of separation, divorce, litigation in the law on child custody, inheritance and issues of taxes, among others.

In short

1 -) The dual citizenship is permitted by Brazilian law (original nationality), by descent (if your parents had the nationality of another country) or by place of birth (if you were born in another country outside of Brazil, which grants you the right to nationality) and not by marriage with a foreigner.

2 -) The dual citizenship implies rights and duties in relation to their countries of nationality.

3 -) The dual nationality may entail limitations on the scope of consular assistance to be (for example, if you are Colombian and Brazilian, and is in Colombian territory, the Court of Colombia will treat it as exclusively a Colombian citizen).

4 -) Remember, always, that you will be subject to the laws of the country where you are (in a residence, business trip, visiting etc).

5 -) If you are Brazilian citizen, never forget that you should enter or exit the Brazilian territory presenting your Brazilian passport (and not as a foreigner).

Offline a.marcos

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2011, 08:45:22 PM »
The American consulate gave Sean a passport so he could travel. As an American citizen, he would not need a Brazilian passport to travel to the US.

My mother is a Brazilian and Portuguese citizen, and travels with her Portuguese passport when she comes to visit me.
this is from the brazilian consulate
“Todo brasileiro é obrigado a entrar e a sair do Brasil com passaporte brasileiro. Os brasileiros nascidos no exterior e maiores de 21 anos que não tenham feito o registro de seu nascimento nas repartições consulares brasileiras deverão viajar ao Brasil com seu passaporte estrangeiro, para, no Brasil, regularizar a questão da sua cidadania e solicitar o passaporte brasileiro.”



"Every Brazilian is required to enter and leave Brazil with a Brazilian passport. Brazilians born abroad and over 21 years who have made ​​the record of his birth in the Brazilian consular departments are expected to travel to Brazil with his foreign passport, to, in Brazil, settling the question of their citizenship and apply for a Brazilian passport. "

Online ProudDaddy

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2011, 09:35:04 AM »
The American consulate gave Sean a passport so he could travel. As an American citizen, he would not need a Brazilian passport to travel to the US.

My mother is a Brazilian and Portuguese citizen, and travels with her Portuguese passport when she comes to visit me.
this is from the brazilian consulate
“Todo brasileiro é obrigado a entrar e a sair do Brasil com passaporte brasileiro. Os brasileiros nascidos no exterior e maiores de 21 anos que não tenham feito o registro de seu nascimento nas repartições consulares brasileiras deverão viajar ao Brasil com seu passaporte estrangeiro, para, no Brasil, regularizar a questão da sua cidadania e solicitar o passaporte brasileiro.”



"Every Brazilian is required to enter and leave Brazil with a Brazilian passport. Brazilians born abroad and over 21 years who have made ​​the record of his birth in the Brazilian consular departments are expected to travel to Brazil with his foreign passport, to, in Brazil, settling the question of their citizenship and apply for a Brazilian passport. "


Although this is absolutely unimportant to the question, what are you trying to say? Of course if I am a Brazilian with dual nationality, I will always Brazil using my Brazilian passport and upon return will use it again. I will only use my other passport (if I had one) upon arriving to my foreign destination.

Offline :: ultranol ::

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2011, 11:26:30 AM »
The American consulate gave Sean a passport so he could travel. As an American citizen, he would not need a Brazilian passport to travel to the US.

My mother is a Brazilian and Portuguese citizen, and travels with her Portuguese passport when she comes to visit me.
this is from the brazilian consulate
“Todo brasileiro é obrigado a entrar e a sair do Brasil com passaporte brasileiro. Os brasileiros nascidos no exterior e maiores de 21 anos que não tenham feito o registro de seu nascimento nas repartições consulares brasileiras deverão viajar ao Brasil com seu passaporte estrangeiro, para, no Brasil, regularizar a questão da sua cidadania e solicitar o passaporte brasileiro.”



"Every Brazilian is required to enter and leave Brazil with a Brazilian passport. Brazilians born abroad and over 21 years who have made ​​the record of his birth in the Brazilian consular departments are expected to travel to Brazil with his foreign passport, to, in Brazil, settling the question of their citizenship and apply for a Brazilian passport. "


They should send him his passport through mail. There. Problem solved.

Offline lovellboys

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2011, 11:56:58 AM »
I believe this whole discussion is moot, especially considering that Sean was returned to David at the US Embassy - thus they were on American soil.  If the family was thinking that it was impossible for Sean to leave the country, even after being handed over, because of a passport issue, I guess the joke was on them.

Offline FC_Florida

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2011, 12:58:15 PM »
The American consulate gave Sean a passport so he could travel. As an American citizen, he would not need a Brazilian passport to travel to the US.

My mother is a Brazilian and Portuguese citizen, and travels with her Portuguese passport when she comes to visit me.
this is from the brazilian consulate
“Todo brasileiro é obrigado a entrar e a sair do Brasil com passaporte brasileiro. Os brasileiros nascidos no exterior e maiores de 21 anos que não tenham feito o registro de seu nascimento nas repartições consulares brasileiras deverão viajar ao Brasil com seu passaporte estrangeiro, para, no Brasil, regularizar a questão da sua cidadania e solicitar o passaporte brasileiro.”



"Every Brazilian is required to enter and leave Brazil with a Brazilian passport. Brazilians born abroad and over 21 years who have made ​​the record of his birth in the Brazilian consular departments are expected to travel to Brazil with his foreign passport, to, in Brazil, settling the question of their citizenship and apply for a Brazilian passport. "


They should send him his passport through mail. There. Problem solved.

:yeahthat

Exactly! But apparently, granny would rather continue her bickering (aided by the "bravatismo" of her enablers) than to do what she's supposed to do.

And by the way, where's all that grandmother talk about not having any pending lawsuits or whatnots in the Brazilian courts??? Does she want to see her grandson or what? Does she love him or does she hate to lose?

To A.Marcos,

I too, have dual citizenship (Brazilian-American), my habitual residence is in the United States (like Sean Goldman) and when I go visit my folks in Brazil, I take it with me in order to enter the country. Upon returning to my home in the US, however, there's absolutely no need to show my Brazilian passport to the Policia Federal checkpoint before boarding the plane, unless a)I am a Brazilian citizen whose habitual residence is in Brazil b) a brazilian citizen who is traveling to a foreign country  c) I am brazilian citizen who's traveling to a foreign country that requires an ENTRY VISA (usually stamped on the passport) d) I'm a Brazilian citizen who's going to live temporarily in a foreign country (for work, study) and I don't hold any citizenship in that country where I'm going to.

Considering that Sean was taken illegally to Brazil, God knows what his Brazilian family have done to his original american passport (and don't forget Sean's "pai socio-afetivo" also tried to falsify the boy's birth certificate by removing his real father's name from it), Tostes has no case. It's all politics and bravatas, as usual. I'm still waiting to see Tostes and his gang (even the Excelentissima Ministra Dona Maria) go directly to the courts in Hague to present "his case"...
* FC_Florida *

Offline gil

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Re: Isto é Gente: Postcard from Sean to grandmother
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2011, 11:33:39 PM »
Tostes said “the Supreme Court, which decides whether there was illegality in their repatriation to the U.S. In 2009. In December of that year, Sean, who has dual citizenship, was delivered to the U.S. Government without a passport.”.

I'm from Brazil,and what he said about Sean needs his brazilian passaport to return to U.S.A,where he was born,is true,by law every brazilian citizen is obligated to leave the country using the Brazilian passport,no matter which country he is going to.....but the problem is that Sean left Brazil without his two passaports,they're both still in Brazil.


wow, you found something Tostes said that's true? Even if it is, it's irrelevant. Normal passport procedures cannot always be followed when abducted children are returned to their habitual residence against the wishes of the abductors. The Brazilian courts and law enforcement supported the return under Brazilian Law and the Hague, if you recall, so of course there would be no issue made of Sean needing a Brazilian passport to LEAVE the country.

Both passports of Sean should have been given to David in compliance with the court order anyway.

Regardless, Sean was given a US passport by the American authorities before he left for the US.

Any other nonsense being spewed by Tostes you want to discuss?