Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Lucas & his mother to return to Canada to live full time effective March 2011  (Read 6043 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline familygal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54

I think you make a very good point. It seems to me the template for the abductor is that they know they can buy themselves at least five years with the child, and still not really pay much of a price for their actions. And during the course of those five years they'll try their darndest to bankrupt the LBP, break his will, his spirit, and hopefully he'll give up before they ever face their day of reckoning in the courts. The abductor has the odds in her favor with very little downside. Why not give it a shot? After all, there are no tough consequences, just a cushy relocation package back to Canada.

I suppose the counter argument would be that even if it's six years later, mother and son return to Canada, so we should be grateful the process worked, albeit slowly. The problem is the passage of time, precious time lost with a child, and the issue of re-adjustment culturally, linguistically, etc for the child. That is why Francois gave in on some of these things -- it's in his son's best interest to have a transition period. I just hate how the Brazilian courts think of this as a success because it is not. They need to fix a broken system that allows the abducted child to stay with the taking parent pending a lengthy appeals process that drags on for many, many years. They need to find a way to get these cases to the federal courts quickly and enforce a return order from the court of first instance -- no appeals, no BS. Work something out where the appeals can play out while the child is home in his country of habitual residence, I don't care how they do it, just do it. Brazil is officially non-compliant with the Hague according to our State Dept. They can't just say "sorry that's the way things work in the Brazilian courts."

I am just learning about this area of law, thanks to all of you, but from what I researched, mediation is one of the methods that many countries use to try and resolve these Hague cases, as tweinstein mentioned with Brazil.  Theoretically, it does make sense to at least try to get the parties to come to a mutual agreement first as you would do in many civil legal cases.  Even in criminal cases there is some sort of negotiations when there is plea bargaining.  However, as we all know, the parties in these child abduction cases do not come to the mediation table at equal bargaining positions (see LukieD's quote above).  The abductor has possession of the child, and is most likely in a country where they know that the legal system will take years (if ever) to resolve the issue and therefore they have little incentive to negotiate.  Of course, if both parties considered the best interest of the child, that would facilitate a quick negotiation of the matter, but we all know that most people who abduct his/her child, are not thinking of the best interest of that child in the first place.  In any case, wouldn't HR3240 help in the mediation of these cases in the abducting country, as it would give the LBP more bargaining leverage during mediation?

With all that being said however, isn’t mediation of these cases in the country where the child was abducted contrary to the dictates of the Hague Convention which requires the return of the abducted child to the place of habitual residence within six weeks?  Upon return, it is then up to the court in that jurisdiction to determine custody and that is where mediation of the terms of custody should take place.  In that way BOTH parents can have access to their child, even during mediation, and BOTH can participate in raising him/her. Ideally this would be done in peaceful compliance with the custody agreement.  OK, I know I’m talking ideal world here, but isn’t that what these children deserve!

Offline KBZensen

  • Left Behind Parent
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 87
Lucas is scheduled to visit Canada this July... Let's keep the fingers crossed this is working out and wheels will be up...
Klaus

Offline CanDad

  • Left Behind Parent
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51
I am very happy that my son is coming back.... but how many abducted children to Brazil will be returned under the Hague Convention... not many and I will explain why later... (will ask administrators to start a topic on this because I want to help).

I took me 5 1/2 to end this nightmare and I would like to share some advices w/ other LBP's...

Offline phillyone

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
Francois, I am so happy for you Lucas is coming home. When you get a chance, let us know how we can help to bring home the other kids.. I guess you're concluding that the Hague is totally meaningless.  :mad:

Offline lovellboys

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
  • @lovellboys
Francois, I am so happy for you Lucas is coming home. When you get a chance, let us know how we can help to bring home the other kids.. I guess you're concluding that the Hague is totally meaningless.  :mad:

I guess the new thread started by M. Capesto explains CanDad's comment.  Canada would prefer mediation - wow.

Offline phillyone

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
Yea.. WOW! I thought it was Brazil not Canada who called the shots on CanDad's mediation...

Offline CanDad

  • Left Behind Parent
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51
Hague Convention and Brazil

1.  It seems that the situation is improving according to a recent US report but still... Brazil must improve the way it deals with child abduction... too many appeals possible by the abductor so it takes years to get a decision and this is very damaging for the children... and also the LBP (emotionnaly and financially).

2.  How many people can spend 200 000$ - 400 000$ (even more for David) to go through all the trials?  If I haven't had financial help from my parents I would have had to stop the process because of lack of money.

3.  IMO you must have a private lawyer in Brazil to put pressure on the system... otherwise it seems that nothing will move...

4.  In Brazil, the mother is considered much more important than the father to raise a young child... this is cultural.

5.  On a positive note I think the situation will improve in the coming years but they have to find a way to stop those appeals.

Thanks to BSH members who are doing a tremendous job!

PS :  I will explain later why I have made a conciliation and why it was in my child's best interest.


Offline CanDad

  • Left Behind Parent
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51
Yea.. WOW! I thought it was Brazil not Canada who called the shots on CanDad's mediation...

The mediation was proposed in Brasilia by my lawyer after we heard the 5 judges talking about my case .... (will explain why later).

Offline SageDad

  • Father of Sage Bermudez
  • Left Behind Parent
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2574
    • HagueAbductions.com
Thanks for the insights CanDad.  Looking forward to seeing more of your thoughts on the issue.  This is the sort of thing other parents and policy makers need to hear if history is not going to just keep repeating itself. 
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi

Offline phillyone

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
4.  In Brazil, the mother is considered much more important than the father to raise a young child... this is cultural.

That one hits me in the gut! I'm from a different culture and yes it's true that a mother is more important in raising children... BUT, Fathers are also a BIG INTEGRAL part of a child's life!!!! And so is the Fathers family!!!

So this statement is not completely true ... just my opinion and my experience.

Offline phillyone

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
Just to add to my comment above.. Culture is NOT an excuse to take a child away (kidnap ) from the other parent. It's a crime.

Anyway, Candad, what can we do different (based on your experience) to help other kids come back?